Agate Type: Adventures in Baseball Archeology

cuban X giants, 1905

Written by

Gary Ashwill

The following photograph of the 1905 Cuban X Giants, originally published in Sol White’s History of Colored Base Ball (1907), was recently auctioned off at Hake’s.

Cubans X Giants 1905

The Hake’s description identifies only a single player: kneeling, second from right, is supposedly Grant “Home Run” Johnson.  Unfortunately Grant Johnson didn’t play for the 1905 Cuban X Giants, and he’s not in the photograph.  It sold for $5,603.71, and one hopes that the buyer didn’t spend this money solely because of the claim that Johnson is pictured.

Johnson did play for, and captain, the Cuban X Giants in 1903 and 1904, and he continued with E. B. Lamar’s team when they travelled to Cuba in the fall of 1904.  But in 1905 he switched, along with pitcher Danny McClellan and utility man Harry Moore, to the X-Giants’ great rivals, the Philadelphia Giants.  Veteran first baseman Ray Wilson took over as X-Giants captain, and Lamar made use of his Cuban connections to refurbish his roster, hiring a couple of Cuban players in the course of 1905, pitcher José Muñoz and infielder Rogelio Valdés.

Aside from Hake’s mistakenly placing Johnson on the team and in the photo, there’s been another discussion of the identities of the players here, so I thought I’d chip in with my take on who they are.

STANDING, L to R: unknown, Ray Wilson, Edward B. Lamar, Rogelio Valdés, John Patterson, Clarence Williams

KNEELING, L to R: Frank Grant, Bobby Winston, Johnny Hill, John Nelson, Harry Buckner

I’ll leave aside the unknown player for now.  Let’s go through them one by one:

Ray Wilson may be the toughest, as he’s mustached in the 1905 photo, but not elsewhere:

Ray_wilson_1905Ray_wilsonRay_wilson-3

Rogelio Valdés

Rogelio_valdes-1905Rogelio_valdésRogelio_valdes-2

John Patterson

John_patterson-1905John_patterson-1903John_patterson

Clarence Williams

Clarence_williams-1905Clarence_williams-1904

Frank Grant, who was apparently fond of non-standard headwear:

Frank_grant-1905Frank_grant-1903

Bobby Winston

Bobby_winston-1905Bobby_winston_2

Johnny Hill (the same mustache problem as Ray Wilson):

Johnny_hill-1905Johnny_hill

John Nelson

John_nelson-1905John_nelson-1903John_nelson

Harry Buckner

Harry_buckner-1905Harry_buckner-1903Harry_buckner-1904

Walter Ball, José Muñoz, William Jackson,* and Danger Talbert were also on this team, but I don’t think they’re in this photo:

  Walter_ballJose_munoz_NEW-2William_jackson_NEWDanger_talbert

(*-I’ve currently got the wrong photo for Jackson up at Seamheads, but that’ll be fixed soon.)

For the unknown player, then, that leaves the X-Giants’ first baseman, Robert Jordan.  I’ve never seen a photo identified as Jordan, so it’s impossible to say now, but based on their roster, it seems likely to be him.

Unknown_x-giant_1905

UPDATE 1/19/2013 See also this discussion of the photo.

7 responses

  1. Phil Garry Avatar
    Phil Garry

    Gary:
    Great job with the player ID’s above. You have the entire front row correct and the two players farthest to the right in the back row along with Lamar. The remaining three are: Ray Wilson (right of Lamar), Dangerfield Talbert (farthest on left) and either Bill Jackson or Robert Jordan (no known images exist like you said) to the right of Talbert.

    Reply
  2. Gary Ashwill Avatar
    Gary Ashwill

    Phil, thanks. Frankly I think the guy on the far left is not clear enough to tell who he is, unless you or someone else has a better image. The guy in the middle, to the right of Lamar, really can’t be Ray Wilson, IMO. He is easily the shortest person in the back row, whereas Sol White wrote in 1929 that “Ray was tall and well built, standing about six-two in his sox [sic]” (NY Amsterdam News, March 6, 1929, p. 8). If that guy is Ray Wilson, everybody else standing would be really tall, and John Patterson would be at least 6’5″ or so, which I don’t think was the case.

    Reply
  3. Phil Garry Avatar
    Phil Garry

    Gary:
    If I tell you that I have done 40 – 50 hours of research on this photo, that might be an understatement. I have the box score and write-up of the game played, opposing team and opposing team photo, date of game, etc. The player on the left has to be Talbert and Wilson has to be correct as well. There were two Wilsons that both played 1B for the Cuban X-Giants at that time, Ed & Ray and they have been confused with each other often times. The only uncertainty is the second player from the left, who I believe is William Jackson but could be Jordan as I have no other photo to compare him to.

    Reply
  4. Gary Ashwill Avatar
    Gary Ashwill

    Phil, if you have all that information, I’d love to see it. Of course it’s extremely likely that Ray Wilson is in the photograph, as he was the captain of the team in 1905 and 1906. It’s also true that Sol White certainly knew who he was (Ray played for him on the Philadelphia Giants in 1907 and 1908, and Ray succeeded White as captain of that team in 1909). I just think it’s rather obvious that he’s the second from the left. I’ve seen one photo of Talbert (with the 1902 Chicago Unions) that *could* look like the first guy on the left (although the one I posted, showing him with the 1909 Lelands, does not), although I still think it’s impossible to say for sure.

    Reply
  5. Bob Mayer Avatar
    Bob Mayer

    Gary,
    I have owned this photo since 2006 and have had the box scores and all newspaper articles leading up to and after the game. Valdes did not take part, but yes Robt Jordan (who I thin is where you have Valdes, and Danger Talbot were there. Talbot may be the first player standing. PS was happy to see the price at the Hakes auction. I had let them know befor the auction closed that HR Johnson was NOT there.

    Reply
  6. Bob Mayer Avatar
    Bob Mayer

    Oh, and of course you all know that Jack Chesbro pitched that game agains the X Giants and shut them out 4-0

    Reply
  7. Gary Ashwill Avatar
    Gary Ashwill

    Bob, great to hear from you. What’s the date of the game? I’d love to post a box score.

    Reply

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